Bryant Sparkman: How did you get your start in real estate development?

Chris Meany: I decided that I wanted to be involved in creating

things that were real. So I set out to get a job in real estate

development, pounded the street for a couple months, and was hired

for a 3-month internship that turned into a 5-year job. The guy I

worked for was in New York and specialized in high-end historical

renovation in retail. My first project was in Palm Beach, and I went

back and forth between Palm Beach, Florida and New York.

BS: Can you provide an overview of your firm?

CM: We are the current incarnation of several businesses that merged

a few years ago and have roughly 35 employees. Wilson Meany was

smaller and focused on retail and mixed-use properties. Tom Sullivan

and Bill Wilson focused primarily on Class A urban office

development projects. We combined skill sets to create a diverse firm

with expertise in retail, residential, office, and, most importantly, how

to mix uses on complicated urban infill projects.

BS: Wilson Meany Sullivan is well known for the Ferry Plaza Building

renovation. How did you develop the retail plan at the Ferry Plaza Building?

CM: When I first moved to San Francisco I spent a lot of time in Union

Square, and was exposed to the Macy's food court located in the

basement. I also went to London and was exposed to Harrods Food

Hall and was absolutely blown away. I view Harrods as the Macy's

basement done right. That was on my mind when the RFP came out

for the Ferry Building. However, the RFP called for respecting the

historic qualities of the building and drawing the public to the

waterfront. The Embarcadero was perceived to be a wall that people

would not cross. We also realized retail is best when it is driven by

big ideas that can resonate locally. San Francisco has an incredible

food culture and we thought if we can do Harrods with San Francisco

culture in mind, this would be a very compelling place where people

can both shop for food and eat. I was fortunate enough to hook up

with a team of people, including Richard Springwater, and a great

design team, and as soon as we were selected we took the entire

design team to go see Harrods. This was one of the greatest due

diligence trips of all time. We also went to Italy, Parisian food

markets, and Pike's Place in Seattle, and we came to the great

conclusion: great markets are all idiosyncratic. The San Francisco

food community believes in sustainable agriculture, and we wanted

to build a project where they could all come together in a public place.

BS: Do you have any suggestions as to how I can get reservations at the

Slanted door?

CM: Laughter... No unfortunately I can't. It's very popular right

now and may become easier over time.

BS: When I first walked into your conference room I noticed a rather

medieval and interesting gong next to the conference room table. I am

curious as to what the gong symbolizes?

CM: We have a tradition of looking at everything as a collective

group effort. So when we sign a major lease or acquire an asset, Tom

likes to ring the gong to alert everybody in the office that something

very special has happened.

BS: I understand you are good with developing financial pro-formas?

CM: One of the reasons I think the pro-forma is so important is

because we are doing developments where we are executing the

creation of a business and the pro-forma is really the business plan.

The reality is that people want deals that have high returns.

Generally, re-developments in the Bay Area are considered to be

higher risk projects and investors are looking for superior returns

and result. We find that our investment partners are looking for

returns in excess of a 20% net IRR. However returns are also unique

to the project with specific qualifications, product types and the

amount of leverage. For instance, condo projects may require a

higher return based on the risk and quick turn around time. The

one thing that has changed is that cap rates, while they may not hold

at the current lows, are not returning to where they once were with

terminal values.

BS: What trends/changes have you seen in development since you began

your career?

CM: It used to be that to be important in real estate was to be an

office developer. All of the big suits were office developers and

residential did not really fit the mold. I felt like I was out there doing

my own thing and not part of the club. Today, there aren't too many

people out there that describe themselves as pure office developers,

so I am kind of glad I never had to go out and buy all of those fancy

suits.

Secondly, there was a moment in time in which developers were

doing rollouts with large pharmacies, and big box retail, focused on

how quickly they could execute. I now see a much bigger

appreciation for the fact that real enduring value is in the core

locations, and the industry is coming back into the already

developed areas where it is more challenging, takes longer, but you

get more of an enduring value with the rise of residential and the return to the city.

A third trend is that it will soon be nearly impossible to create new

infill housing because California is becoming the place where local

opposition wages war. For example, at Bay Meadows we have been

engaged for five years, had over 100 public hearings, with a lot of

public studies, and came out with a plan that was enthusiastically

endorsed by City Council and people who participated in the

process. And then, the project was still attacked. In the Bay Area,

this roll up your bridges and stop development stuff, particularly in

the suburbs, increases project costs and results in delays in

delivering much needed housing supply.

BS: What development trends do you foresee in the San Francisco Bay Area

in general?

CM: I think if you take the Greater Bay Area as a whole, a trend of

more mixed-use infill projects will become the mainstream.

Younger people are leading the battle to have us all more aware of

environmental issues, and they are succeeding. Thoughtful people

everywhere realize the sprawl of unchecked development is eating

up our agriculture land and adding congestion to roads and

undermining quality of life. Because you are not going to stop

growth, you need to redirect residential growth into a denser form

so that we can take up a smaller footprint. But this is what really

makes an interesting trend, whether because of environmental

sensitivity or because urban living tastes have changed, its not a

hard sell to have people live in denser urban building forms. There

are people like me, who look at the typical suburban home with a

backyard behind a fence and find it creepy. Who wants to live in a

neighborhood where you live behind a fence and never see your

neighbor? You have people selling suburban homes in Hillsborough

and moving into the Four Seasons and St. Regis, which is a trend that

will likely persist.

BS: What advice do you have for the next generation of aspiring

developers?

CM: I myself missed the golden age of development in the Bay Area

with the likes of Bill Wilson and Ned Spieker, and all of the other

great legendary Bay Area developers who helped make the Bay Area

what it is today. They made it in a time where there was a

recognized need for growth and development. The people I most

respect were differentiated because they worked hard, were ethical,

and people could rely on their word, they make themselves good

partners with the city and neighbors. At the end of the day, people

need to be good people and that's really the most important thing.

BS: Do you enjoy what you do as a real estate developer?

CM: I think that we are doing pretty special work and immediately

have the opportunity to positively impact peoples lives, and that is a

high calling and its also an incredible amount of fun. If we are lucky

enough to work in this business we should live up to our

responsibilities.